tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13336104.post114467196755439670..comments2024-01-07T13:24:03.640+00:00Comments on Nothing Tra La La?: Dandy-lion holocaust0tralalahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06818587472660040921noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13336104.post-1145269401015755572006-04-17T11:23:00.000+01:002006-04-17T11:23:00.000+01:00And can I jump in on the 'two civil wars'?The Engl...And can I jump in on the 'two civil wars'?<BR/><BR/>The English Civil War/s (1942-49, or '51 for choice) was / were really just the middle bit of the <I>British </I> civil wars, including the Bishops' Wars (Scotland) and the Irish Rebellion, and wouldn't have happened if Charles hadn't been ruling three non-uniform kingdoms that became destabilised (largely because of attempts by each to impose their own uniform rules, particularly in religion).<BR/><BR/>So the English civil wars you mentioned that <I>aren't</I> titled 'the English Civil War' have rather better claims to the title ;-)Alex Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364653159038708678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13336104.post-1144863953747454512006-04-12T18:45:00.000+01:002006-04-12T18:45:00.000+01:00The reason why I said 'not entirely accurate' is t...The reason why I said 'not entirely accurate' is that the white rose was only one of several badges used by the House of Lancaster, and there is some doubt over whether the House of York ever used a red rose for their badge. The idea that the two houses were represented by red and white rose badges seems to have been invented when Henry VII came up with the combined red and white Tudor rose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13336104.post-1144848736784896012006-04-12T14:32:00.000+01:002006-04-12T14:32:00.000+01:00Ah, I'd thought it was all from Henry VI and the s...Ah, I'd thought it was all from Henry VI and the simile of it all just being a rumpus in a garden. <BR/><BR/>Yes, Nimbos, the flowery emblems were contemporary, but calling the wars after them would be a bit like calling the 1640s the "Haircut Wars". It's an example of meiosis.<BR/><BR/>Jonny, I recommend Christopher Hill's books on the civil war and Oliver Cromwell. The latter I can lend, since it informed a fair bit of Dr Who meeting him.0tralalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06818587472660040921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13336104.post-1144772229073098542006-04-11T17:17:00.000+01:002006-04-11T17:17:00.000+01:00Maybe the wars didn't exist as "the roses" but the...Maybe the wars didn't exist as "the roses" but the emblems certainly did. The Tudor Rose (in various red/white forms) exists back to the time of Henry VII to signify his red one and Liz's white one conjoined.Nimboshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09641328022362217877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13336104.post-1144686647654347142006-04-10T17:30:00.000+01:002006-04-10T17:30:00.000+01:00Shakespeare didn't come up with the term 'the war ...Shakespeare didn't come up with the term 'the war of the roses' - the phrase doesn't appear in the four plays and seems to have orginated in the 19th century. Shakespeare does incorporate some red/white rose business into the Henry VI plays, though - but the idea that the two sides had red/white rose emblems seems to be a (not entirely accurate) notion that took hold during the 16th century, and was not an invention of Mr S. No irony intended.<BR/><BR/>Henry Tudor had two claims to the throne - as well as being the great great grandson of John of Gaunt on his father's side, he was also the great great grandson of John of Gaunt on his mother's side. John of Gaunt being the son of Edward III and an important running-the-country type of chap around the time of Dick II (his nephew, and a real twat).<BR/><BR/>Top fact: Edward V was never crowned so shouldn't count as a king, and so our Edward numbering system has been fucked ever since. Kind of like when they put the years on Dr Who annuals.<BR/><BR/>This is all from memory. I have been boning up on this shit, oh yes. And now for an encore, who ruled the country during the civil wars?<BR/><BR/>Charlie I<BR/>then<BR/>Rump parliament<BR/>then<BR/>Nominated assembly (everyone forgets this one)<BR/>then<BR/>Olly C<BR/>then his son<BR/>Dickie C<BR/>then<BR/>Rump parliament<BR/>then<BR/>Charlie IIAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com